THE GUILD
READ ONLY ARCHIVE, NEW LOCATION www.guildwargamers.com
 
Log in to check your private messages

Log in  Register


Profile  Search  Memberlist  FAQ  Usergroups
Non Engineers using the flame thrower

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    THE GUILD Forum Index -> Historical / Military discussion and Orbats
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rigsby
The Vanguard


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 1265

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Non Engineers using the flame thrower Reply with quote

2 Weapons ive always wanted, a Flame thrower and a chainsaw..

Im no expert but I thought the Flame thrower was used by engineers thus I guess its a specialists weapon.

Whats the likelyhood of someone picking it up and using it who isnt trained, would other soldiers by ordered not to use.

How difficult is it really to use, I suppose keeping the flame alight would be more difficult to the untrained rather than it back firing and killing the user and those around him, Must of been a system to stop such events?
_________________
Permissive society? There's no such thing. I should know I've looked for it.

www.darylgrant.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
elhiem
Guild Respected


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 1395
Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it depends on the army.

I used to work with an ex British Squaddie who served in WW2, one day I took in to work a deac MP40 and said, 'I bet you know how to use this' he held it played with it (he couldnt even cock it - the MP40 has a pull out safety feature on the handle unlike most other SMGs) he explained that he was trained to use a Enfield and didn't even know how to use a Sten or Bren as at the time they were not trained to.
_________________

the Guild : its like a bacon sarnie and a cup of sweet tea when you have a hangover!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Richard B.
Established


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 751
Location: Swansea, South Wales

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This taken from an article by Greg Novak -

After D-day the American Infantry did not have dedicated assault engineers. Flame-throwers were held in the divisional supply depot until required and not usually issued as part of a unit TO&E these weapons actually came under the responsibility of the Chemical Weapons Officer. In August 1944 with the American advance about to reach The West Wall, some commanders began to train assault squads for their infantry companies. These squads (8-men with a flame-thrower, a bazooka and 2-BARs along with demolition charges, bangalores etc) were given special training in bunker busting techniques.
_________________


I`m the editor of the SOTCW magazine - The Journal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alanmccoubrey
Established


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 822
Location: Westbury, Wilts, UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl, The Germans had it mainly used by the engineers but some units had a flamethrower in each infantry company, GD and the "senior" Waffen SS divisions mostly. Very confusing. The Soviets had masses, Bob sent me the orbat for the units used in his latest scenario and one of the re-inforcements sent was 22 Guards Motorised Engineer-Sapper Brigade which had 110 flamethrowers.
_________________
Alan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chris W
Regular


Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Pontefract, West Yorkshire.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the British point of view:

1944 and later. The 'Flamethrower, Portable, No2' (aka the 'Lifebouy') was in use. Available at Battalion Level (6 per Battalion) - for use by trained personnel within the Bn.

My personal point of view on the lack of evidence of the use of this weapon apart from a few documented instances is that it must have been hard for Bn Commanders to deploy effectively in a fluid battle situation. Great against fixed positions where you can get in close etc - but perhaps difficult to use on the open battlefield. Far easier to call up the Wasps.

Regards

Chris W
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
FantasyFixtures
Dedicated


Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Pleasnt Hill, Mo

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My father was in the Marines (it's a family thing) from '52-'54, and was a plain ole grunt ( a noble profession). They did familiarization training on a variety of weapons, including the flame-thrower, while in boot camp, and beyond. Beside his anecdotal recollections, his Boot Camp graduation book backs this claim up.

The one thing I remember about his recounting the experience was the fact that he never wanted to touch one after doing famprac on them, because he felt that one was just as likely to fry ones self as they were to fry the enemy.
_________________
All men are created equal, then some become Marines.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bob_Mackenzie
Guild Respected


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 1406

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
Daryl, Bob sent me the orbat for the units used in his latest scenario and one of the re-inforcements sent was 22 Guards Motorised Engineer-Sapper Brigade which had 110 flamethrowers.


I'm pretty certain that these guys wre parcelled out to standard infatry units - I can't see how you'd use them en-mass
_________________
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bob_mackenzie/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
scruton
Dedicated


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Minneapolis, MN

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Soviet flamethrower deployment Reply with quote

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:
Alanmccoubrey wrote:
Daryl, Bob sent me the orbat for the units used in his latest scenario and one of the re-inforcements sent was 22 Guards Motorised Engineer-Sapper Brigade which had 110 flamethrowers.


I'm pretty certain that these guys wre parcelled out to standard infatry units - I can't see how you'd use them en-mass


In the last year of the war, the Soviets generally parceled these brigades out a company at a time to battalion assault groups (depending on the tactical situation, of course). In practical terms, when those assault groups further subdivided into their constituent company assault detachments, each of those companies would've had a flamethrower platoon under its command (along with other corps/division/regimental/battalion assets like machinegun and mortar platoons, artillery and anti-tank batteries, tanks and assault guns, and other specialists such as scouts and sappers).

Broadly speaking, the flamethrower platoon assigned to such assault detachments consisted of an officer w/ sidearm; 2 NCOs with submachineguns, and 20 privates with flamethrowers. One presumes that there'd also be one or two dogsbodies and/or armorers required to refuel and repair the weapons, but its unclear if they'd be on the company rolls or held at some higher level and parceled out administratively. Internally, I'm not entirely sure how the platoons were organized -- by the late war, the section in both rifle and SMG platoons had shrunk to 5 or fewer men, so its possible they were organized in 4 squads of 5. All of the photos and film footage I've seen shows flamethrower operators working in teams of two, but once you get above this team level, it's unclear to me how they were organized -- perhaps each squad would've included 2 x 2-man teams with a fifth man available for security, leaving four flamethrower rigs in reserve so the weapons could be rotated through refueling/repair (of course, for you RF/Command Decision players this lack of specificity won't present much of a problem). The footage I've seen of flamethrower operators in Berlin suggests that they were dual-armed, carrying both submachineguns and flamethrowers.

In addition to these dedicated flamethrower units, there were small numbers of flamethrowers held in some specialized units, e.g., the sapper sections of some (many?) scout platoons.

I hope this is of some interest.

Best regards,

Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    THE GUILD Forum Index -> Historical / Military discussion and Orbats All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

phpBB "skin" by DewChugr


© 2007-2008 Informe.com. Get Free Forum Hosting
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
 ::